Re: [tequila/sls] comments on the TEQUILA draft by W. Almesberger (retry)

From: Yves T'Joens (yves.tjoens@alcatel.be)
Date: Wed Oct 18 2000 - 19:41:32 CEST

  • Next message: Yves T'Joens: "Re: [tequila/sls] predefined services / SLS ?"

    Werner Almesberger wrote:
    >
    > [ Retrying ... this was blackholed by the list processor last Monday ]
    >
    > Yves T'Joens wrote:
    > > we haven't used any specification language so far, CIM is a pretty good
    > > candidate indeed. Internally we originally used a BNF notation scheme
    > > (which is a bit less heavy), but i would support going for CIM.
    >
    > I was also hoping that BNF would be sufficient ... CIM is powerful but
    > I suspect it may add a lot of unnecessary overhead ... (hmm, I see a
    > specification language war coming up ;-)

    don't forget XML.

    >
    > > but you don't need the policy framework architecture for supporting the SLS
    > > negotiation. In that sense, it is different enough to allow the creation
    > > of a different working group.
    >
    > Agreed. Also, as far as I can tell, the scope of the SLS work can
    > be quite clearly defined. So there is hope that things won't get
    > side-tracked too much. (Which is always a risk if you add work on
    > peripheral issues to a group with a broad spectrum.)
    >
    > >>>3.1, general.
    > >>> Typical SLAs in use today include geographic references like "no more
    > >>> than X ms RTT to any of our routers in Europe". Example:
    > >>> http://www.uk.uu.net/customerservices/sla/tandcs/
    > >>>
    > >>> Such specifications are probably too difficult to express in a general
    > >>> formal way, so the current approach of ignoring them seems appropriate.
    > >>> Nevertheless, it may be good to mention them, simply due to their
    > >>> current practical relevance.
    > >>
    > >> I don't think that they are too difficult, but on an other level of
    > >> abstraction. (part of domain name? Some specific countries, regions etc.
    >
    > What I mean is this: there are always lots of little "private" bits
    > showing up in an SLA. I don't think it's worth the effort to try to
    > integrate them all into a general SLS model.
    >
    > With RTT, I see the following problems:
    > - it's hard to define in the context of Diffserv (besides trivial
    > cases where an SLS containing an RTT is constructed from two SLS'
    > with only one-way delays)
    > - it implies traffic conformance rules for the reverse direction,
    > which may generate references to other SLS', etc.
    > - the properties of the reflection procedure need to be specified

    certainly the latter makes me worried as well, since this might be out
    of control of the network.

    >
    > NB: not having the concept of RTT in the SLS doesn't prevent a provider
    > from talking about RTT in the SLA.
    >
    > > you can have multiple flow IDs attached to one SLS, but then one would
    > > police on the aggregate of the packets that are classified as such.
    > > this is different from identifying multiple SLSses for which policing is
    > > done on any individual flow ids.
    >
    > Concerning classification (in a broad sense - basically everything
    > you do to decide what to do with a packet, including metering), I think
    > we ought to be able to express everything that is in
    > draft-ietf-diffserv-mib-04.txt or draft-ietf-diffserv-model-04.txt
    >
    > In particular, I think it would be a mistake to knowingly exclude
    > functionality already provided for in the drafts mentioned above.
    > (It's less of a problem if the SLS model exceeds the capabilities
    > of the drafts a bit, because a) real life will impose its
    > restrictions anyway, and b) some functionality may be provided by
    > some means beyond the scope of those drafts.)
    >
    agreed.

    > >> I think there should be a requirements draft for the negotiation anyway.
    > >
    > > I don't know if one can really separate them, since a request for an SLS
    > > subscription/invocation may carry a different set of parameters then the
    > > ack/offer being presented by the network. we will try to clarify this in
    > > our next version.
    >
    > At the Salzburg meeting, we had broad consensus that there should be
    > (at least) two documents on SLS': one dealing with what is basically at
    > a flow(s) level (we called this the "invoked" service), while the second
    > one would focus on the invocation and other things going into the
    > subscription. I think this distinction it useful and it will help to
    > keep things consistent in their respective areas.

    the framework should clarify the above

    cheers
    Yves
    >
    > - Werner
    >
    > --
    > _________________________________________________________________________
    > / Werner Almesberger, ICA, EPFL, CH Werner.Almesberger@epfl.ch /
    > /_IN_N_032__Tel_+41_21_693_6621__Fax_+41_21_693_6610_____________________/



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